Planning Commission Minutes

CITY OF VICTORIA
REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 5, 2010

MEETING

Pursuant to due posted and mailed notice thereof, the Victoria Planning Commission met on January 5, 2010, at 7951 Rose in the Council Chambers.

Chair Simanton opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m.

Members Present: Chair Gordy Simanton; Commissioners: James Donadio III, Grant Peterson, Michelle Siegert and Tom Vogt.

Members Absent: None.

Others Present: Community Development Director, Holly Kreft; Councilmember Paulsen and Randy Miller, Business Development Committee.

A. Adopt Agenda

A motion was made by Vogt, seconded by Donadio, to adopt the agenda. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.
 

#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:

A. Minutes of the December 15, 2009 Planning Commission Meeting.

Commissioner Vogt corrected the fourth paragraph, third sentence on page four to read: Mr. Hartman stated his Lakeside Building wouldn't be built as an example if wood is removed as a primary material. He also corrected the second to last sentence in that paragraph to read: Commissioner Vogt commented that lap siding appears to be an issue as well as the questionable materials.

Commissioner Vogt corrected the third sentence in the first paragraph of page 5 to read: He said when they put the addition on it was priced out the same way and the numbers didn't work.

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Siegert, to adopt the minutes as amended. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.

B. Review Minutes of the December 14, 2009 City Council Workshop.

The above minutes were reviewed.

C. Review Minutes of the December 14, 2009 City Council Meeting.

The above minutes were reviewed
 

None.
 

Ms. Kreft said the Business Development Committee met on December 16^th and discussed the hardiboard issue. She said they noted the Central Business District is a very large area and there is everything from Dr. Baker's office on the east side to the Dairy Queen on the west side. Ms. Kreft stated that after much discussion the Business Development Committee recommended that hardiboard be limited to an accent material of 30% in the core downtown, which is the area between Rose Street and Quamoclit and Highway 5 and Steiger Lake Lane. Outside of the core downtown hardiboard would be limited to an accent material up to 50%.

Ms. Kreft stated this will be going to the City Council on Monday as a public hearing.

Commissioner Vogt referred to the staff report in which it states the cons include its lack of permanency when compared to masonry products. He said that should be changed because it is a masonry product. Commissioner Peterson said to use the word durability as opposed to permanency.

Commissioner Siegert asked about using a trade name for hardiboard. Ms. Kreft said they could use cement fiber board, which is in the language currently, and the James Hardie is a trade name and specific to that type of product.

Commissioner Vogt referred to the conditional use permit and asked what other communities do. Ms. Kreft said they do variances. Commissioner Vogt stated before the design standard ordinance there were design guidelines, which they spent a lot of time creating the design standards. He said each builder has the ability to negotiate variances from the standards based on context. Commissioner Vogt stated the design standard ordinance is ineffective by having a conditional use permit. He said he thinks this leaves everything wide open.

Chair Simanton clarified that a conditional use permit will be used like a variance. He said the conditional use permit is only for that occupant or use and if the use changes that can be revisited. Ms. Kreft said the way it is proposed in the design standard is that it wouldn't be tied to the use. She noted it is a variance process without the hardship.

Commissioner Siegert said the design standards aren't rigorous enough to address all the possibilities so there has to be some flexibility. She commented on benchmarking with other cities and said in some ways it is good to compare but Victoria is like no other city in Carver County because there is a lot of room to grow. She said to ask the other cities if there is something they would have done differently and use that to benchmark.

Commissioner Peterson stated he likes the conditional use permit because of the flexibility.

Commissioner Donadio asked about the transitional district and if redevelopment of those properties would fall under the central business district. Ms. Kreft said the design standards from the central business district were transferred to the transitional industrial. Commissioner Donadio clarified that those properties would be outside the core.

Commissioner Vogt said there are successful communities all around Victoria that don't use the conditional use permit process. Commissioner Siegert referred to Excelsior and said some businesses like strict standards and others didn't.

Chair Simanton commented on the economics and asked if that would be covered with a conditional use permit. Ms. Kreft stated the hardship cannot, by statutory regulations, be economic. She noted it has to be something unique to the property.

Chair Simanton asked what the reasons were for the 30% in the core downtown and 50% outside the core.

Randy Miller, Business Development Committee, said the biggest discussion was the percentages. He said the presented percentage was 20% and the consensus of the Committee was 30% to be utilized within the core business district. He said County Road 10 and 11 will also need to have a percent. Mr. Miller stated the biggest concern is they don't want all stone and brick buildings.

Chair Simanton commented on the property values going down and said he doesn't understand the economics. Mr. Miller said land costs and material costs are down. He stated square footage is a big issue. Chair Simanton questioned other square footage costs. Mr. Miller said parking is dilemma but the biggest consensus in town is the cost of doing business. He said there is a very limited area for growth in Victoria. Mr. Miller said he thinks the conditional use permit is a better way to go and it makes it flow better.

Commissioner Peterson said they don't want a developer to come in and build a building inexpensively to hit the market rate then turn around and sell it to make a profit and leave a building that doesn't have the quality.

Commissioner Siegert questioned the 30% versus 50%. She referred to the comprehensive plan and said that Victoria has the potential of being one of the largest cities in Carver County and the central business district is a small percent.

Chair Simanton said he has an issue of the percentages being broken out. He suggested leaving it at 30% and letting the conditional use permit do its job.

Chair Simanton stated they shouldn't feel obligated to drop the standards.

Commissioner Vogt stated this isn't a cost issue because costs are down; it is a revenue issue and the ability to lease. He said the situation is potentially temporary.

Commissioner Siegert talked about having some sort of brick or stone as a "knee wall" around the entire building to prevent some of the decay. Commissioner Peterson said he thinks that is implied in the ordinance and most builders are going to look at that.

Commissioner Siegert said she did some research on EIFS and a lot of the material is negative. She questioned if going from 20% to 30% is a step in the wrong direction. She said this material is almost impossible to make watertight; there are a lot of cracks that form and any puncture will rot the building. Commissioner Peterson said it has been around for a while and the problems are with the older installation. He stated the flashing has to be done right. He stated EIFS could be a good material to use as an accent material. Commissioner Peterson said certain products shouldn't be eliminated based on poor installation.

Commissioner Vogt said that metal is mentioned as an accent material but asked about steel lap siding. Ms. Kreft said she will add not as siding.

Chair Simanton clarified that the Planning Commission would like to see 30% across the central business district.

Commissioner Peterson referred to the definitions and said there should be something that identifies the zoning criteria. Ms. Kreft said that staff refers to the application within the ordinance.

Commissioner Vogt asked what triggers the need for a conditional use permit and who the trigger is. Ms. Kreft said there are two scenarios; one would be that an applicant is building a new building and they are proposing not to meet a material or design standard. They would then have the site plan and building materials review concurrent with the conditional use permit process. She explained the second part is if a site plan or building materials review is not triggered but if the primary materials are not proposed to meet the standards that would trigger the need for a conditional use permit.

Commissioner Peterson commented on the flow chart and said a lot of communities also have a calendar. Ms. Kreft said they usually provide a calendar to developers.

Ms. Kreft said the table of uses is now in alphabetical order and also cross references each of the uses within the zoning districts.

Ms. Kreft stated she is recommending a number of additions to the parking table, which are listed in the staff report. She said she is also recommending removals from the parking table for the three uses that are not permitted within any of the districts. Ms. Kreft said there are also language changes to the parking table, which include separating offices from medical and dental offices or clinic. She said she is also recommending some changes to the central business district. One of the changes is to add banks and financial institutions as a conditional use because of the drive-thru. Another change is to add funeral homes, not including cremation services, as a conditional use. Ms. Kreft said post offices and parcel delivery service would be a conditional use. Art, sculpture and photography studios would be a permitted use. She stated she is also recommending sidewalk cafes and farmers markets be changed to interim uses.

Ms Kreft said she also did a spreadsheet comparing parking to Waconia and Chanhassen.

Commissioner Siegert commented on funeral homes and using a standard based on the number of seats. She asked if there is a reason funeral homes was done by square footage. Ms. Kreft said it was similar to other public spaces but they could do it based on the number of seats as well.

Commissioner Siegert asked if a bank wanted to come in without a drive-thru if they would need a conditional use permit. Ms. Kreft said it would still be a bank or financial institution so they would need a conditional use.

Chair Simanton asked if Chanhassen and Waconia use shared parking. Ms. Kreft said yes, but not as detailed.

Commissioner Peterson commented on the fund for shared parking and said there is nothing specific that would tell a developer what that fund would be. Ms. Kreft said she hasn't done any changes to that section because it was just approved by the City Council. Commissioner Peterson asked if it is a one-time fee. Ms. Kreft responded yes. Commissioner Peterson stated it should be an annual lease. Ms. Kreft explained the issue with leasing is those spaces are then dedicated for that business. Commissioner Peterson asked if there is a plan in the fund that is being established to start to generate dollars. Ms. Kreft said in the case where they have collected a fee they have used it based on the land cost and the construction cost.

Chair Simanton commented on the width of the stalls at Fresh Seasons and asked if someone has looked at that. Ms. Kreft said they will be re-striping in the spring. She said they would fall under the existing ordinance of 8.5 feet for width.

Ms. Kreft said that Fresh Seasons is an off-street parking facility.

Commissioner Vogt asked about nursing homes being changed to long-term care facilities and said there are a lot of rehab facilities that aren't long-term. Ms. Kreft said the reason she proposed the change was because nursing homes didn't capture the scope of services. Commissioner Peterson said convalensce could be added to the definition

Commissioner Siegert asked about alternative compliance. Ms. Kreft said if land was donated for a park versus money for the parking fund that would be permitted if the City Council approves it.
 

Councilmember Paulsen reported that tomorrow is the annual retreat for the City Council.

Councilmember Paulsen said he was in Boulder, Colorado and talked about a staff report that he was able to review. He said the staff report is question based and very detailed. He explained that after the Planning Commission approves something it doesn't go to the City Council, but there is a 30-day period in which any City Councilmember can call for it to be heard. He said a more active, defined role of the Planning Commission might be beneficial to assist the City Council. Councilmember Paulsen suggested that include all finances, deliverables and all the empirical questions. He asked for thoughts on this. Commissioner Siegert commented on the flow chart process and said understanding the process is key to making sure every committee is doing its' purpose. She stated communication also needs to be worked on. Chair Simanton commented on having resources available and compensation.

Chair Simanton also talked about the communications and said the city is behind a lot of other cities. He stated he would be a huge proponent of bringing in a communications expert.
 

None.
 

A motion was made by Vogt, seconded by Simanton, to adjourn the meeting at 7:56 p.m. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

Respectfully submitted,
Tanya Schmieg
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.