Planning Commission Minutes

CITY OF VICTORIA
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
FEBRUARY 6, 2007

MINUTES

Pursuant to due posted and mailed notice thereof, the Victoria Planning Commission met on February 6, 2007, at 7951 Rose in the Council Chambers.

Chair Simanton opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m.

Members Present: Chair, Gordy Simanton; Commissioners James Donadio III, Bud Hiivala, and Tom Vogt.

Members Absent: Commissioner William Mead VI.

Others Present: Holly Kreft, City Planner; Angie Perera, Assistant Planner; City Councilmember Jim Paulsen; and Tanya Schmieg, Recording Secretary.

A. Adopt Agenda

A motion was made by Vogt, seconded by Donadio, to adopt the agenda as presented. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.
 

#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:

A. Minutes of the January 2, 2007, Planning Commission Meeting.

The following revisions were requested to the January 2^nd meeting minutes:

Chair Simanton stated that on page 6, the second to last paragraph should say an "MGM" type store.

A motion was made by Donadio, seconded by Vogt, to approve the Minutes as corrected above. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

B. Minutes of the January 16, 2007, City Council Meeting.

The following revisions were requested to the January 16^th meeting minutes:

Commissioner Hiivala noted a spelling error on page 5, it should be shared parking.

Commissioner Hiivala said on page 5, the second to last paragraph should read: one parking garage.

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Donadio, to approve the Minutes as corrected above. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

C. Review Minutes of the January 11, 2007 City Council Meeting.

The above minutes were reviewed.

D. Review Minutes of the January 25, 2007 City Council Meeting.

The above minutes were reviewed.
 

None.
 

A. Discuss staff report by Jennifer Kretsch, City Clerk regarding off-sale liquor license. Planning Commission requested staff research liquor license requirements at their January 2^nd, 2007 meeting.

1. Agenda Statement No. 07-03-COMM
2. Exhibits: City Council Agenda Statement No. 07-25, Resolutions No. 07-12 and 07-15.

Ms. Perera showed a table of the liquor licenses. She stated that also enclosed is a staff report from the City Council meeting along with the resolution that approved the liquor license and conditional use permit.

Commissioner Hiivala commented that it seemed like it use to be that you could have either on or off-sale, but not both. Ms. Perera said there are three different licenses you can have: on, off and Sunday.

Chair Simanton asked why Victoria is not considered a first class city. Ms. Kreft stated that a population of 50,000 is the cut off for a first class city and then it is one off-sale per 5,000. She noted that Victoria would be under number two, stating that in all other cities the limit shall be determined by the governing body of the city.

Chair Simanton referred to the chart provided and said Victoria is the only one with a conditional use permit and asked if there was an advantage or disadvantage. Ms. Kreft said the advantage is there is more control. She noted that was added in December of 2005. Commissioner Donadio said that is only in the Central Business District. Commissioner Hiivala asked how a conditional use permit is an advantage. Ms. Kreft said they can attach conditions if there are concerns such as parking, hours and noise.

Ms. Kreft stated a conditional use permit stays with the property.

Commissioner Vogt said it would be helpful to understand the population of each city on the chart on page 6-A. Ms. Perera noted that information was not available in the staff report.

B. Review draft City Council Agenda Statement for an ordinance amendment to include the definition of impervious surface in the City Code. This will go to the City Council for a 1^st reading/Public Hearing on February 8^th for the ordinance amendment and a 2^nd reading on February 22^nd, 2007.

1. Agenda Statement No. 07-01-ORD
2. Exhibits

Ms. Perera stated that included in the packet is the staff report going to the City Council this Thursday.

Commissioner Hiivala asked about pavers and said under the present ordinance they are allowed. He suggested that there be some mention of pavers.

Commissioner Donadio suggested also defining a pervious surface.

Chair Simanton commented how good this exercise was and noted that this was one of the best summaries of information he has seen.

C. Downtown Parking Ordinance Update

1. Agenda Statement No. 07-02-ORD
2. Exhibits

Ms. Kreft stated that enclosed is article V, which is the portion of the zoning ordinance that deals with off-street parking and loading.

Ms. Kreft said that Section 30-146 is where the changes were made noting that multiple family has been changed to 2 spaces versus the 1.5. Also changed is the retail and restaurants per the recommendation of the Downtown Master Plan.

Ms. Kreft stated that section 30-147 is very specific to the Central Business District. This language states the applicant would need to provide the shared parking analysis.

Ms. Kreft said the table included compares project by Mary Meuwissen. Under the current ordinance the total is 165 and what the ordinance proposes is a 50% reduction. Included in the packet are also comparisons with other cities along with rent rates.

Ms. Kreft said the last portion of the staff report is the comments from the Business Development Committee.

Ms. Kreft stated this will be going to the City Council this Thursday for review and if they are comfortable with the language then that would move forward to an ordinance format that would come back to the Planning Commission possibly in March and then it would go through the public hearing process with the City Council.

Commissioner Vogt suggested that at the top of the chart it say that this is Mary Meuwissen’s proposal.

Commissioner Vogt asked about the proposed totals. Ms. Kreft said what the ordinance proposes is a 50% reduction. These numbers are the new requirements. Commissioner Vogt commented that the 50% is arbitrary. Ms. Kreft said that staff recognizes that a project will most likely not come forward that can meet off-street parking in the Central Business District.

Chair Simanton said the 74 is what would be required for off-street parking and asked if it would be 50% of that. Ms. Kreft said no. Commissioner Donadio said each of the columns is the different components of the project and if you add that total it is 148 and half of that is the 74.

Ms. Kreft said most of the cities are in alignment with each other. She noted the big one is restaurant and it being dependant on whether or not liquor is served.

Ms. Kreft noted the language taken from the developer agreement and the conditional use permit is taken from Wayzata.

Commissioner Vogt asked what the total represents in the other cities. Ms. Kreft responded that it shows the same project based on their ordinance.

Chair Simanton noted the highest two are Hopkins and Wayzata and they have ramps and asked if they allow that public parking as part of that. Ms. Kreft said she did not ask, but will find out.

Commissioner Hiivala commented that this is going to have long-term problems without a ramp.

Commissioner Donadio talked about keeping track of the parking spots.

Commissioner Vogt asked what Excelsior does. Chair Simanton said they have the Highway to the south and a lake on the north and there is very limited access to that area. He said the one thing Victoria has that Excelsior does not is growth.

Chair Simanton asked what Matt Crowe’s plans are for the "new" area. Ms. Kreft said the deadlines in the preliminary developer agreement are March 15^th for the retail/commercial component, May 1^st for the housing component and June 1^st for the traffic studies and other components.

Commissioner Vogt said he thinks a ramp is in the future. He said the "new" area would be a good area for a ramp at the side of the hill. Chair Simanton noted that was a recommendation the Planning Commission had and also talked about taking advantage of the geography by Schmitty’s and having a two level ramp and not take up valuable retail space and potentially something in the City Hall area as well.

Chair Simanton said he talked to one of the Business Development Committee members and in their opinion they thought people who come to a town don’t want a ramp and the second is the cost of $33,000 per stall. He stated his comments back were to park in front is his first option but after circling if there is a ramp that is where he goes. Commissioner Vogt noted that downtown Edina off 50^th and France has a desirable ramp. Chair Simanton said four years ago the number was $12,000 per stall and would like to challenge the Business Development Committee for more information. Chair Simanton stated if there is not going to be a serious discussion he has two other option and one is to put a moratorium on future downtown development or not do anything until the west side has been completed in terms of what the plans are. He noted that is his opinion.

Commissioner Vogt talked about shared financing for the ramp and having a business that needed the ramp.

Chair Simanton said another notion from the Business Development Committee was the rent base is so thin they would not be able to afford it. Commissioner Hiivala noted he heard that the existing businesses are not ready to be assessed.

Commissioner Hiivala referred to the ramp at Von Maur at Eden Prairie Center and commented that they have acres that never see a car.

Chair Simanton would like some of the questions answered on the negatives of having a ramp.

Commissioner Vogt said the message that has to be communicated is the new parking ordinance doesn’t solve all the problems and it doesn’t solve it forever.

Commissioner Hiivala asked if the numbers in the total column of the comparison of Mary Meuwissen’s project are working in the other cities.

Ms. Kreft said she will give the City Council a verbal update on Thursday night.

Chair Simanton said in summary the Planning Commission is in favor of the shared parking ordinance, but they are not satisfied with where they are at with the pros and cons of a ramp or ramps in the Central Business District and they would like additional studies done that relate to cost as well as perceptions of ramps for retail and restaurant customers, otherwise they would recommend a moratorium on any further business development or wait until June to see the west side plans.

Commissioner Vogt stated that if this is not solved right business will leave and the strength needs to be kept in the downtown to not lose what is there. Chair Simanton said what happens on the west side is going to be 21^st century and no one will want to come over here. Commissioner Vogt said they risk losing everything built up here if the parking gets out of hand.

Commissioner Vogt commented that Highway 5 is also a big issue.

Chair Simanton suggested bringing the Planning Commission, Business Development Committee and the City Council together to discuss the ramp.
 

Councilmember Paulsen said he likes the intensity and the idea of a transit hub is really good.

Councilmember Paulsen said there is a chance of doing a single level above grade drive in and out.

Councilmember Paulsen stated the idea of a moratorium is something that needs to be thought about and he agrees with the comments on the west side.

Councilmember Paulsen commented on the rents and it looks like the suburban area on Highway 5 is around $20 per foot, but he is not sure on the downtown.

Councilmember Paulsen showed a map of Westdale Center off Wayzata Boulevard and talked about the rent rate and the access.

Councilmember Paulsen stated that in talking to leasing agents about downtown rather than parking the first thing to be considered should be a monument sign. He noted that there is no way there is enough rent or profit downtown to build a ramp. He said the Excelsior and Grand ramp is not working.

Councilmember Paulsen said the underground parking at the Eden Prairie Best Buy is a good example of a lot of money being spent and not getting used. Commissioner Donadio said he uses that ramp because it is always empty. He said that the customers don’t know the ramp is there. He referred to IKEA and that underground space is typically full. Commissioner Vogt said he goes to that Best Buy and he didn’t know about it.

Commissioner Donadio said that Mary Meuwissen may know what an underground parking ramp would cost. Ms. Kreft said that for the feasibility report that TKDA did, they do have the numbers for a parking ramp estimate for the City Hall area and for the Schmitty’s parking and will share those numbers.

Chair Simanton asked about the infrastructure being bonded. Ms. Kreft said it is bonded. Chair Simanton asked if the City could look at ramps as infrastructures and bond for those. Councilmember Paulsen said that density equals dollars and the City doesn’t have the density.

Councilmember Paulsen said he likes the idea of having a joint meeting.
 

A. Communications.

Ms. Kreft noted the Comp Plan Task Force will be meeting on Wednesday, February 21, at 6:30 p.m. and any commissioners are welcome to attend.

B. Other.

Commissioner Donadio suggested sending out the sample community surveys to all the members.
 

A motion was made by Donadio, seconded by Vogt, to adjourn the meeting at 7:45 p.m. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.
 

Respectfully submitted,

Tanya Schmieg
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.