Planning Commission Minutes

CITY OF VICTORIA
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
FEBRUARY 28, 2006

MINUTES

 

Pursuant to due posted and mailed notice thereof, the Victoria Planning Commission met on February 28, 2006, at 7951 Rose in the Council Chambers.

Chair Simanton opened the meeting at 7:02 p.m.

Members Present: Chair, Gordy Simanton; Commissioners James Donadio III, Bud Hiivala, William Mead VI, and Tom Vogt.

Members Absent: None

Others Present: Eric Zweber, City Planner; Angie Perera, Assistant Planner; City Councilmember Rick Tieden; and Tanya Schmieg, Recording Secretary.

A. Adopt Agenda

Commissioner Vogt recommended removing Lake Wassermann Development under 4A. Mr. Zweber asked if it could still be addressed and not removed.

A motion was made by Hiivala, seconded by Donadio, to adopt the agenda as presented. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.

#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:

None.

Chair Simanton reviewed the process that would be followed tonight during the public hearings.

1. Agenda Statement No. 06-08
2. Exhibits

Mr. Zweber stated that the City of Victoria has received a Preliminary Plat application from K & K Communities for a proposed 120-unit multi-family and twinhome subdivision to be known as Madelyn Creek. The property is located to the west of Bavaria Road and south of Minnesota Highway 5. The University of Minnesota Landscape Arboretum is north and east of this neighborhood, on the south is an existing single-family residential neighborhood, and to the west is currently a farm owned by Tony Kerber. The Sketch Plat for this development was reviewed by the Planning Commission on May 17, 2005.

Mr. Zweber stated that the proposed preliminary plat shows that the property would be subdivided into 25 buildings, 7 of which will be twinhome buildings and 18 of which are rowhouse-type townhomes. The 7 twinhome buildings are located between the wetland complex and Bavaria Road. The 18 townhouse buildings are divided into sixteen 6-unit townhouse buildings and two 5-unit townhouse buildings.

Mr. Zweber showed the site map and noted it is about 40 acres, but after getting into the right-of-way and the wetland it gets down to about 20 acres of developable property. Mr. Zweber stated the land is comp land for about medium density and low density residential. In reviewing the sketch plat review it was thought that it would be appropriate to view the property as medium density for affordable housing. He noted that there are about 5.85 units per acre.

Mr. Zweber reviewed the grading plan. The property grades off downhill from Bavaria Road towards the creek. They are proposing to make a lot pad and an extensive berm on Highway 5 and 13. The berm ends up being at a maximum of 36 feet. Mr. Zweber noted that the houses are located in a hole and the berm should block the majority of the view.

Mr. Zweber stated that Outlot A is dedicated as a City Park.

Mr. Zweber said that between the private drives there needs to be a little elevation change and that continues back to 78^th Street.

Mr. Zweber stated there is a bend in the road that offsets about 10 feet.

Mr. Zweber noted that the first unit on 78^th Street is a 5-unit townhome, which is smaller and also breaks up the vision corridor. He said that on the other side where the twinhomes are located on the southeast corner there is some berm that provides some shielding.

Mr. Zweber noted that along the road itself they are proposing a retaining wall that is about 10 feet high.

Mr. Zweber stated that one of the previous comments that the Planning Commission had was there is the existing Hyacinth Street reviewed taking the road and matching in with that, but it is just very problematic both in mitigating the wetland as well as wetland soils are not good to put a road on. It does meet all the design standards for accesses and is about the best location it can be.

Mr. Zweber stated 78^th Street will be reconstructed as part of this development and will become a 32 foot back to back collector road. This location will have a left and right turn lane. Chair Simanton asked if the 32 feet is from Bavaria to Highway 5. Mr. Zweber responded it is from Bavaria all the way to the western property line. Chair Simanton asked if the developer is paying for these improvements. Mr. Zweber said yes.

Mr. Zweber stated there is a trail that is being installed and a sidewalk will be installed on the north side of 78^th Street all the way to the western property line. The trail itself will come back along the retaining wall back into the development and the park site and then back up to Bavaria Road to the intersection of Highway 5 and 13. There is also a gateway feature, which is a welcome to Victoria rest area. There is a trail head monument with some concrete pavers and a landscape area. Mr. Zweber did make a comment in the letter on making a better connection. The intent is to have a rest area. Mr. Zweber said that one other feature is the Parks Department had submitted and the City Council approved a grant for the City of Victoria to connect the missing trail segments from Highway 5 down to the corner of Bavaria Road and 86^th Street. Commissioner Donadio asked about going north. Mr. Zweber said right now they don’t have any plans, but they are working with the County to get some of these projects done.

Mr. Zweber said they are asking for this to be approved as one phase. The City Council did put language in the Growth Management Guidelines that it is the City Council’s discretion to approve the size of each phase. Mr. Zweber said he supports that for two reasons. One, all subdivisions require two points of access and he doesn’t see how this will work if there is an emergency. And second, the fact of the market rate of 120 homes. Mr. Zweber noted to pay specific attention to the fact or question when making a recommendation.

Mr. Zweber said that next is finances. The goal of this subdivision is to provide affordability. Mr. Zweber talked about the background and at that time they were discussing 30% at a met council affordable price point. In talking about that there were a couple issues that came up. One is that it is a one time affordability and the first person in could buy at the met council rate is and then turn around and sell it for what the market rate is. He said that the concern would be that people would by them as investment purposes. Mr. Zweber said they went back to the other idea that has been used for affordable housing and working with the land trust concept. The City acquires the lots and dedicates them to the land trust and under that ownership then they lease the lot to an affordable income individual or household. They would pay for just the price of the unit. This would provide long-term affordability. Mr. Zweber noted that this is new to Victoria. The developer has stated that the lot cost is about $65,000 as a part of viewing the whole area as a medium density they pledge to give three land trusts lots to the City, which is two and a half percent and is more than what is required. The City would also have the opportunity to be an additional four units if they reduce some fees. Mr. Zweber identified in his staff report if they reduced some of the recreation fees that is equivalent to $130,000 the City could get two more land trust lots and if the water core fee was lowered by $1,000 a unit the City could get two additional lots. He noted that both state statute and the City ordinance allow this to happen.

Commissioner Hiivala asked what the relationship of the berm to Bavaria Road as far as height. Mr. Zweber said the location closest to Highway 5, Bavaria Road there is about 16 feet both ways off of Bavaria Road. He said that for the retaining wall there is no additional height for the berm. The southeast corner has a berm height of about 8 feet.

Commissioner Hiivala asked what the setback off of Bavaria to the entrance road is. Mr. Zweber said it is 225 feet, which meets all the standards.

Commissioner Hiivala asked if there are private or public roads within the development. Mr. Zweber said the main roads, which would be road 1 is a public road and road 2 is a public road as well. The private roads are the private drives that come off the two roads.

Commissioner Hiivala stated he thinks there should be a cul-de-sac by the park area. Mr. Zweber said that having a cul-de-sac or turnaround is something they plan on addressing in the final plat.

Commissioner Vogt asked about what happens west of the stream and the park in terms of elevation and berming or lack of. He asked if your coming down Highway 5 going east what will be seen, being there doesn’t appear to be any shelter or berming on the west end of the property. Mr. Zweber said currently there isn’t any and they can’t require a berm. When the property to the west does develop they will require it. Mr. Zweber said that how it drops off is there is a ridge and it drops off towards the creek. He said that Tony Kerbers house has a line of tall pines, but in certain areas you will see the houses and nothing can be done about it.

Commissioner Vogt asked in terms of later development to the property to the west, it can be said that berm is required, but no way of knowing what kind of berm it will be. Mr. Zweber said it would be the same regulations as now assuming they are the same.

Commissioner Vogt commented on the recreation facility feed that would fund the rest area and the sign and asked where that money is coming from. Mr. Zweber said it is coming from the homebuyers of this development. There is a per unit fee. These are funds that they currently don’t have but would be acquired through each unit.

Commissioner Vogt applauded the fact that the developer keeps coming back. He talked about the very recent establishment of Growth Management Guidelines by the City which require staging or phasing of developments. He stated he didn’t understand why the City was so quick to dismiss the staging requirement for this developer by applying some lots to the 2005 lot provision. Commissioner Vogt also wondered why building the road was a factor in recommending only one phase. Why not construct the entire road initially regardless of phases since the development area is not that large? He stated the other issue is if you look at the 225 annual guideline, it includes an allocation for commercial and multi-family housing. Single family housing is only around 150 units per year. Mr. Zweber said they didn’t identify it year by year because you can’t control the development proposals. Mr. Zweber said there is one party who is interested in doing a mixed use development downtown that won’t get constructed until 2007. Mr. Zweber stated that they did identity there would be a mix overtime. Mr. Zweber noted that this is his recommendation and thinks the road is a big concern with the number of houses.

Commissioner Vogt stated that in his opinion on the trust housing the three lots is not enough and the City should pursue a means of getting more lots. He noted that seven lots would be six percent.

He said it is hard to understand with the price points are and if the City should do this. Mr. Zweber stated the applicant can address this.

Commissioner Donadio asked about Outlot A and what will go in that park area. Mr. Zweber said they don’t have an idea. He said that the park in its current configuration size is the appropriate size for a playground, tennis court or basketball court. There would not be enough space for a soccer field. Mr. Zweber noted that they could extend road 1 to the west and bring it down farther to the south creating enough space for a baseball field or soccer field. Commissioner Donadio asked if there would be a need for berming right up against Highway 5 for some safety for kids. Mr. Zweber said some more extensive landscaping could be done and he did not vision a berm.

Commissioner Hiivala stated a remaining issue is that there still haven’t been talks in the Planning Commission about the development of properties east and west and where the best place for a storm water pond would be. Mr. Zweber stated that the Minnehaha Watershed District has quite a bit of jurisdiction on the. He noted that due to the creek there is quite a bit of storage. They are creating as few ponds as they can. Mr. Zweber said they are specifically talking about proposing a series of catch basins that will be set up in a structure so the next developer knows they are there.

Commissioner Hiivala asked about the property north had to build the storm drainage ponds and for economics the best place is the lowest area. Mr. Zweber said that it is a pretty sizable pond. Commissioner Hiivala asked about the capacity to share with the property to the west. Mr. Zweber said it depends on what goes there. He said they did a good effort to try and accommodate some of it. Mr. Zweber noted that there is not a huge watershed in that area.

Chair Simanton commented on Highway 5 and Bavaria Road being a busy intersection and that it may be four lanes some day. He asked if the was enough right-of-way in the berming and rest area. Mr. Zweber thinks there is. He said the berm is on the property and the grading of the berm itself is on the developer’s property. The gateway features are also on the property. Chair Simanton asked about the road going west and if it is clearly going to be visible. Mr. Zweber will make sure it is and it will be platted as right-of-way all of the way.

Chair Simanton stated he fully supports additional affordable lots with relief and should consider recommending to the City Council. He said on the phasing piece of it he is going under the assumption that since this is an affordable housing project that in order to put this in as one phase has to be to their advantage from an economic standpoint. He said he can overlook that based on the fact that they would phase in it would potentially make these units more expensive. Mr. Zweber said he agrees with that. Mr. Zweber said the other factor that comes into play really is the size of the development. They are talking about 20 acres, which is not a huge project for the grading to get done.

Mr. Kerber of K & K Communities stated he is looking forward to do this project. He said this is the fourth shot now and it has been a learning process. The general marketing has received a lot of positive responses from the Victoria community. This development will be reaching out to the baby boomers and keeping the local people here instead of moving further west. Mr. Kerber stated that the phasing of this is a small, difficult piece of property with the wetlands. They would not like to have to phases due to the chances of some of the prices being raised. He noted that they would like to try and keep this to a minimum. He said that as to looking at the berms along Highway 5, it is hard to achieve total screening. Mr. Kerber noted the townhomes will have the more affordable units in the middle and the outer units will be a little more for the amenities.

Chair Simanton asked what material will be used on the units. Mr. Kerber showed a drawing of the townhomes. The townhomes would consist of a combination of vinyl, stone, brick, shakes and trim board with decorative wrought iron flower boxes to dress it up and make more of a warmer community feel. The twinhomes will be more of a traditional look and some with more of an arts and crafts look. Chair Simanton asked about the material being used on the retaining wall. Mr. Kerber said it is a combination, on the larger ones structural features such as a modular block, keystone generic name, would be used. Along street 2 there would be a combination of some oak croppings and probably some limestone. The entrance will be dressed up with the backdrop of the pine trees on the east side and there is a monument feature.

Commissioner Vogt asked what the price point ranges will be. Mr. Kerber stated the townhomes will be in the mid to low 200’s. The twinhomes will be around $380,000 for a base and then up. Mr. Zweber said that any of those lots that are the land trust lots could be dropped by $65,000. Commissioner Vogt commented that this price is really outstanding if that can be met. Commissioner Vogt stated he withdrawals any comment of staging to keep the price point. He also thinks the City should do everything they can to get more trust units.

Chair Simanton pointed out the concern on single car garages when this project was first started and the Commission really appreciates them taking a look at that. Chair Simanton thinks this will be a really nice project.

Chair Simanton opened the Public Hearing at 7:55 p.m.

Loane Burau of 1225 78^th Street said his wife, sister-in-law and father-in-law own the property adjacent to the west. He said his first question for his father-in-law would be the low area on the property referred to as the meadow has a drain system and wants to know how that would be addressed. Mr. Zweber stated that they were not aware of that and they will have to work on that to find out where it is located. Mr. Zweber asked him if he was indicating there is a drain tile system. He said yes, there is one that is quite large. Chair Simanton asked if it daylights out somewhere. He responded that he doesn’t know.

Mr. Burau said his second question is the property is now zoned as medium density. Mr. Zweber stated that it is comp plan designation and showed the orange area on the map that is medium density. The yellow area is low density. Mr. Zweber said they said they would look at the property as all orange in exchange for affordable housing. It would be zoned as R residential with a PUD. He asked what that would do to the property to the west as far as value. Mr. Zweber said it won’t do much. His recommendation would be to take the medium density and shift it along the west property and provide phasing that could be a townhome or single family area. Mr. Burau clarified it could be a multiple use. Mr. Zweber said that it would need to be a single family component with multi family around it. Mr. Burau asked along the met sewer line if it is 30 or 60 feet. Mr. Zweber said it is 30. Mr. Zweber said there are setbacks from the property line and it is a good use of those easements. Mr. Burau asked if that would be a greenway through there. Mr. Zweber said it would be more like residential lots. The metropolitan sewer would have the right to come through anytime.

Mr. James Haugen of 7800 Bavaria Road said he is very impressed with the project and this will be great to have in the neighborhood. He had a question for the Planning Commission on if they really want a City park on Highway 5. He mentioned that he is thinking of his 2^nd grader riding a bike and would not want her going to that park. He noted he would rather have it down next to his house.

Mr. Haugen stated the other issue is with the trail system and the money involved with that he thinks that is great and if it is not going to happen than don’t make the developers put the trail system in right now, because it will not be used or of any use to anyone unless it is hooked up to the trail system. Chair Simanton stated he was at the City Council meeting last week and said that Kristy Mock made a presentation and his point is well taken about the trail systems. The City Council did approve a trail from the corner of Bavaria all the way to 86^th Street. Chair Simanton said he does not know what the timeframe on that is. Mr. Zweber said they would receive word about the grant later this year and the construction would occur next year. He said they would do engineering and bids over the winter. The construction schedule of this project is not far off, start this year. Mr. Zweber said that the next step is to invite all the neighbors to a public meeting.

Mr. Haugen said the final issue has to do with the traffic and the discussion of the intersection lining up with Hyacinth Street, which creates a real intersection as opposed to moving it towards the east to Bavaria Road. He stated that he thinks it is an error to move it to the east and understands the issues with the soils and everything else, but long term he thinks the residents of that neighborhood would be happier with it lining up with Hyacinth Street. He said he can sit on his driveway and wait two or three minutes trying to get on to Bavaria Road. He said that 82^nd Street needs to be paved to Highway 41 and Kochia needs to be paved from the high school out to Highway 5. He said that is infrastructure that needs to happen before the start of new projects and the Planning Commission is going to need to deal with those improvements. He talked about the problem on Highway 5 and Bavaria Road and it being a failed intersection. Mr. Haugen said this is going to be another 120-130 units all going out the same way. He said going back to the placement of the exist, he strongly suggests that they line it up with Hyacinth. Mr. Haugen said to call the land in between green space and help the developer out.

Chair Simanton closed the Public Hearing at 8:10 p.m.

Commissioner Hiivala comment would be is it possible to line up the two roads, like down at Watermark, almost like a service road, to come and be almost parallel to 78^th street, just going west from the entrance over. Mr. Zweber said they can do it, but he has a difficult time recommending it for the continual maintenance issue. Mr. Zweber said in talking with some of the people building 212 they are digging out 80 feet deep to get below the wetland soil and have to build it back up. Mr. Zweber noted that as staff he stronlgy states that wetland soils are poor to develop roads on. Commissioner Hiivala said he doesn’t disagree. He said the other concern he has is about the plan developed to the west and where they drain. Mr. Zweber said they will have to look in to this.

Commissioner Vogt commented on the discussion on why Hyacinth and road number 1 would not share the same intersection as 78^th Street and what would it cost to make this connection. Mr. Zweber said they would need to do soil borings to determine the exact magnitude of the wetland soil issue. Mar Brad Kerber said the main problem is that K & K does not own the property. There is a three acre exception for the Kerber residence. The first thing they would have to do is acquire the property where such an intersection would be.

Commissioner Vogt asked if a traffic analysis has been done. He noted the increase in traffic on 78^th Street and how there are four points of traffic flow on to a busy street. Mr. Zweber said they did traffic counts on this road earlier this year and 78^th Street is a state road. He said the townhouses give a different impact than single family homes. A single family home would generate about nine and a half trips per day where a townhouse generates a little less than six. He mentioned with that same analysis it is about seventy trips out of that subdivision in the am. At the peak time there is about 30 trips in the morning heading west and about a hundred and ten heading east and in the pm there is about thirty trips heading each direction. Mr. Zweber noted that it is only in the morning that people are trying to cut through. Mr. Zweber said that one of the ideas they are thinking about is possibly seeing if they can either change the intersection or close it to prevent people from making that right hand turn. If that was done it would eliminate 70 trips in the morning. Chair Simanton reiterated that shutting down 72nd Street has been discussed. Mr. Zweber said yes, maybe a temporary basis.

Mr. Burau said that Highway 10 the majority traffic coming from the west will go right to 312 and take care a lot of that traffic. He commented on Highway 5 remaining a super highway. Mr. Zweber said it probably will on a temporary basis, but it will only be a couple years for it to go back.

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Hiivala, to recommend to the City Council the approval of the Preliminary Plat of Madelyn Creek with the following conditions:

1. The Planning Commission would like to see some creative financing to get affordable lots from three to six or seven.

2. The Planning Commission would like the drain tile to the west of the property reviewed.

3. There needs to be a trail connection from the rest area to the trail along Bavaria on the north side of the development

4. There needs to be a trail connection between the existing trail to along 78^th Street to the intersection on the south end.

5. The Planning Commission would like to see a cul-de-sac to the road ending to the west.

6. The Planning Commission would not like to see any required phasing for this development.

Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

1. Agenda Statement No. 06-09
2. Exhibits

Mr. Zweber stated that In December 2006, the City of Victoria approved a Variance for the Waterbrooke Fellowship Church to deviate from the City’s parking standards for parking lot surface type, parking lot stall striping, parking lot aisle width, and parking lot shoreland setback. Since that Variance, Waterbrooke Fellowship Church applied for a Variance with the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District and was denied. As a result of that denial, the Waterbrooke Fellowship Church has applied for a new Variance that would only deviate from the City’s parking standards for parking lot surface type and parking lot stall striping.

Mr. Zweber stated that the request tonight is to construct a parking lot back to what was originally proposed. The proposed parking lot will provide the required number of parking stalls, but does so with a gravel parking lot with unstriped stalls. Mr. Zweber said that this proposal would need a variance from the zoning ordinance for two conditions. First, it states that the parking lots shall be surfaced with concrete or asphalt and be well drained and landscaped. Second, it states that the parking spaces shall be striped and the lot shall be surrounded by concrete curbing. Any consideration of the variance should include a condition that a parking lot that meets all the ordinance requirements be installed by October 15, 2007.

Chair Simanton asked if Pastor Bonner went before the DNR and what there issue was. Pastor Bonner said the issue was defined the wetlands on both sides there is not even 10 feet left and they were proposing 24 feet which would encroach on both sides and that would have taken an act of congress. Pastor Bonner noted that they are putting the money now where it will do some good, but they will have to raise more money to do this.

Chair Simanton asked if the parking lot was just temporary. Pastor Bonner said that it was never intended to be the final and is used for picnics and outdoor services. Commissioner Donadio said that they were constructed that temporary lot to take advantage of a driveway that was already there. Pastor Bonner said that and saved about $30,000-$35,000 to do that. He noted that they have since received some better bids and saved about $10,000 on the cost, but they are still in the $35,000 range, which they don’t have yet.

Chair Simanton asked if the plan is to put a timeframe on this. Pastor Bonner said it would be the same timeframe. Chair Simanton asked if they need to do anything in a conditional use permit. Mr. Zweber said it gets put into the resolution of the variance.

Chair Simanton asked if this church plans to have another access point. Pastor Bonner stated in the larger plan he showed another building in phase two and possibly in phase three and also showed where another exist would be. Chair Simanton noted that having a plan for another access point is critical. Pastor Bonner said the maximum growth would be 1,000. His idea would be when they got to 500-700 they would look to plant a daughter church further west.

Chair Simanton opened the Public Hearing at 8:34 p.m.

Chair Simanton closed the Public Hearing at 8:34 p.m.

A motion was made by Vogt, seconded by Simanton, to recommend approval of the variance with the conditions that a parking lot that meets all the ordinance requirements be installed by October 15, 2007. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

Pastor Bonner mentioned the building is now up and the frames are in. The completion date is scheduled for June 14, a day before the lift station.

A. Request by Lake Wassermann Development LLC to revise the Growth Management Guidelines to allow the review of developments within Comprehensive Plan Priority Area 2010-B.

1. Agenda Statement No. 06-10
2. Exhibits

Mr. Zweber stated that the City of Victoria has received a request from the Lake Wassermann Development LLC to revise the City of Victoria – Plat Review Areas map to include Comp Plan Priority Area 2010– B. The Lake Wassermann Development LLC has the controlling interest in the property on the northwest corner of County Road 43 and Marsh Lake Road, which is currently outside of the area that we have indicated we would review through the Growth Management Guidelines. Expanding the City of Victoria – Plat Review Areas map to include Comp Plan Priority Area 2010– B would mean that their property would be able to be reviewed by staff and eventually be brought forward to the Planning Commission and City Council. The Lake Wassermann Development LLC states in their request letter that the reason the City should revise the Growth Management Guidelines is because the Metropolitan Council Environmental Services has stated that the first phase of the sanitary sewer system is schedule to be completed in early to mid 2009. The Lake Wassermann Development LLC believes this is a significant departure from the Metropolitan Council Comprehensive Plan Amendment Approval Letter that stated that the limitation on sanitary sewer connection is in effect until December 31, 2010.

Mr. Zweber noted they asked for removal, but this is the resolution on how to manage growth. In the resolution approved the growth management guideline it did say they would do an annual review to make sure the conditions make sense. He said it is still an appropriate time to do an annual review. The issues in Mr. Zweber’s staff report are not going to change so he would still like to address the topic and make a determination whether they want to expand or not. Mr. Zweber said he wants to hear from the Planning Commission and himself as staff would like to hear some direction on if what they are doing now is working.

Chair Simanton stated that based on the letter received and the points that Mr. Zweber made he would say that it is working. Commissioner Donadio asked if they got the staff report. Mr. Zweber said they did and that may have been part of the reason they denied.

Commissioner Vogt made a comment on the process that is set up and they would entertain annual reviews. He said if they were going to change the parameters he wouldn’t want to see it happen in a recommendation to the Planning Commission by a developer, so if they are ever going to change these boundaries it should be a discussion. Then if they are going to change it they go back to the developer. Commissioner Vogt said he was completely surprised to see this major request come to them knowing that this was all set up. Commission Vogt said he takes issue with the process that they should never change something this serious because one developer comes forward with a proposal.

Mr. Zweber provided some background information. His first contact with them was in December of 2004. He stated that they had comprehensive plan approved for the 2010 phasing area and it wasn’t divided out. When they received approval there was a condition which is in the packet as C. that said you are limited to 3,200 recs before December 31, 2010 and at that time there was a need to put something in place to control these. They had to figure out a way to divide it into areas that are more manageable. He said they have it divided as A, B and C and this will be constructed on how the sewer will be constructed. He stated that looking at the vacant land in the City it seemed like they could develop all inside the City phasing areas A and then evaluate at that time. He showed where the property that Lake Wassermann Development has and they are in the 2010 B area. They actually submitted a sketch plat for that and one of their concerns for that was in the previous plan it was medium density. The Growth Management Guidelines were then developed which stated they are going to look at this every year and revaluate. He stated that the discussion from Lake Wassermann Development was always what do they need to have happen for staff to recommend the expansion of the growth areas. Mr. Zweber said that he needs a letter from the Metropolitan Council saying they received more recs and a letter saying that he doesn’t need to do a comprehensive plan amendment for those recs and the third one is to address the staffing issues. In August he met with the developers and they said they would supply a letter saying that says you are going to get 1000 additional recs in 2008 and you won’t have to do a comprehensive plan. Mr. Zweber said that he received a letter on the update of the sewer system and they expect to be online on in 2009 but that is a tentative schedule. Chair Simanton asked if they received a copy of that letter. Mr. Zweber said they received one from him. Mr. Zweber said he got the verbal comment that you don’t need to do the comprehensive plan and he asked if he could get that in writing and was told no, so he didn’t have any information. He stated that he needs it in writing to go forward. He noted on Monday morning they got the request to pull the item from the agenda. He stated that he will pull their name from the agenda but they still need to do annual review. Mr. Zweber did not hear from them, but they contacted Councilmember Rick Tieden and stated that in Mid March that the Metropolitan Council will have new approval and it will give more recs. Mr. Zweber has had almost daily contact with them and he is not confident with that. In mid March they are going to approve the design consultant and he has been asked to sit on the selection committee. He noted that he is well informed of what’s going on with Metropolitan Council and everyone he has talked to said they are not getting a letter. Now they are asking to put this off again to March.

Chair Simanton stated he read through everything provided and it sounded like there was an interpretation of information and it is different and they seem to believe it is much more positive. All they have heard at this point is that there will be improvements but all that is tentative at this point and to make a commitment based on that is not in the best interest of the City. Chair Simanton said his opinion is that they specifically put these guidelines in place based on the reaction from information received on the recs. He noted that in 2006 and 2007 they were looking at 300 homes per year and then it was discovered they didn’t have the infrastructure to support that.

Carole Toohey of US Homes/Lundgren Brothers stated that she urges on the developer’s behalf, they would appreciate the Commission waiting at least until after the March meeting with the Metropolitan Council. She said to wait until there is more information before closing the book on this for another whole year and this will give more time to see what’s going on.

Commissioner Hiivala stated that he supports Chair Simanton’s and Commissioner Vogt’s statement about leaving it as it is.

Mr. Zweber stated he would like a recommendation.

Chair Simanton asked about having the annual review it is assumed that if there is nothing changing and there is no information there really is no reason to enter into any discussions because nothing has changed. He said if something did come back from the Metropolitan Council and it was significant enough that did change the parameter, the group would consider that and would want to look at that. Commissioner Hiivala said with the information they have today it should be rejected. Chair Simanton said if the MET Council found that there enhancements they could do with the lift stations and they could do that earlier then that sets up another issue on the transportation end of it. That would also have to be put together with the ordinance in the future in handling developments and road construction.

Commissioner Vogt said with the rec situation was put in front to set parameters for staging it was with a sense of relief for the transportation of high growth. He said they weren’t ready for the 300-400 houses per year so this fit the overall feeling to take a hard look at everything. Commissioner Vogt reiterated what the Chair said about transportation being an issue. Commissioner Vogt said he wants to reinstate making any kind of motion is inappropriate because the process is in appropriate. He said he understands the request for the truth should always be there. The process is when new information is received from the Metropolitan Council they discuss it and come up with solutions, make changes and then entertain a request. Commissioner Hiivala said he agrees.

Commissioner Hiivala said another point is if they get 1000 or 2000 more there may be three or four developers come and ask to go beyond 2010. He noted there is danger of losing control. Mr. Zweber said he agrees with the controls that are put in place. He noted a motion is not necessary, just wanted some discussion to make the Commission aware of what is going on. The City Council views the guidelines very seriously and they should be followed.

Mr. Zweber said that his staff report talked about the Marsh Lake Road work that needs to get done before the 350 homes per year point. Mr. Zweber said they are trying to staff and provide resources, but it is not a priority over the transportation issues.

Commissioner Donadio asked a process question of them getting it in front to present there development process and how long will it take moving forward for a typical development to go from the initial meeting with Mr. Zweber to dirt moving. Mr. Zweber said for houses it’s usually two construction seasons. He said it would be a year to go from when they come through the door with a sketch plat to a final plat and then it depends on the size of the development. Commissioner Donadio asked why there are showing up now, even with the best case scenario, there is not the capacity for sewer there until 2009 at the earliest. Mr. Zweber said there are key missing pieces that would be more beneficial for the City developing sooner than others.

Councilmember Tieden noted that he liked Chair Simanton’s comment about being at a failed intersection.

Councilmember Tieden was contacted by the Lake Wasserman Development and they said they were concerned about issues, but he is not speaking for them.

Councilmember Tieden said that Chair Simanton put it very well along the way we have some people who have access to information from Met Council looking at in different perspectives. He said with all the information that has been seen there is nothing to suggest there are any recs being given to them to make them.

Councilmember Tieden stated that it would have been wise for Lake Wassermann Development to be here tonight and he was hoping they would have been able to speak tonight.

Councilmember Tieden said he thinks the Planning Commission handled this situation very well. The fairness issue with other builders was talked about and is a much larger issue than just one developer.

Chair Simanton suggested inviting Mr. Tom Workman along with Ortmann, Kohls and Delaney when they talk about the road issues. Councilmember Tieden thought that would be a good idea.

Councilmember Tieden stated the growth management guidelines are something the citizens are concerned with and they are trying to maintain and balance that with the developers.

Councilmember Tieden stated he thought Mr. James Haugen was very articulate on what he saw. Councilmember Tieden said he also travels that road everyday and he is right on the money.

Chair Simanton stated that last week he appreciated the recognition from Councilmember Tieden and would like to recognize Commissioner Vogt as well. He said Commissioner Vogt has been on top of the traffic and parking and we owe him a lot for that for keeping that on the top of the line.

Chair Simanton stated that sometimes the Planning Commission gets the credit, but Mr. Zweber has done a fabulous job with the ordinance on the statue and getting the impact fees past. He said they also appreciate the support by Councilmember Tieden.

Councilmember Tieden commented on how great it has been working with the Planning Commission and he was told by Councilmember Mary Hershberger Thun that he will find some very dedicated people who work hard.

A. Communications.

None.

B. Other.

Commissioner Vogt thanked Chair Simanton for his comments.

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Hiivala, to adjourn the meeting at 9:15 p.m. Vote: 5 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.

Respectfully submitted,

Tanya Schmieg
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.