Planning Commission Minutes

CITY OF VICTORIA
REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
DECEMBER 15, 2009

MEETING

Pursuant to due posted and mailed notice thereof, the Victoria Planning Commission met on December 15, 2009, at 7951 Rose in the Council Chambers.

Chair Simanton opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m.

Members Present: Chair Gordy Simanton; Commissioners: Grant Peterson, Michelle Siegert and Tom Vogt.

Members Absent: Commissioner James Donadio III.

Others Present: Community Development Director, Holly Kreft and Councilmember Tom O'Connor.

A. Adopt Agenda

A motion was made by Vogt, seconded by Peterson, to adopt the agenda. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.
 

#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:

A. Minutes of the December 1, 2009 Planning Commission Meeting.

Chair Simanton added: Chair Simanton opened the public hearing at 7:00 p.m. on page 5 between the 5^th and 6^th paragraph.

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Siegert, to adopt the minutes as amended. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion Carried.

B. Review Minutes of the November 23, 2009 City Council Meeting.

The above minutes were reviewed.
 

None.

Ms. Kreft said this is a follow up from the discussion at the last meeting. She said representatives met on December 4^th to discuss potential revisions to the design standards. She explained that most of the discussion focused on the need for having the process. Ms. Kreft said there was not consensus of the group that the process needed to change but based on recommendations the proposal is to move forward with a change in the process.

Ms. Kreft said the first major revision is that a site plan and building materials review would be required for all new construction and any additions greater than 20% of the gross floor area.

Ms. Kreft said they reviewed the design standards from the City's of Chanhassen, Waconia and Excelsior. She noted all those communities require a site plan and building materials review.

Ms. Kreft stated the second revision was a change to the process for the deviations. She said this would be a conditional use process versus a variance. She noted that would be a public hearing process.

Ms. Kreft said the group also recommended that if moving forward with a process that requires review by the Planning Commission and City Council there should be additional standards added to the language so it is very specific.

Mr. Hartman stated his Lakeside Building wouldn't be built as an example if wood is removed as a primary material. Ms. Kreft stated most of the discussion focused around the use of wood as a primary or accent material. She stated staff is recommending it be an accent material because of the maintenance. She said the amount of accent material that would be allowed would increase from 20% to 30%. Commissioner Vogt commented that lap siding appears to be an issue as well as the questionable materials.

Ms. Kreft noted these changes were reviewed by the City Council last night. Chair Simanton clarified that the City Council did not have any additional concerns.

Commissioner Siegert referred to the first bullet point in the staff report and asked if the process is written anywhere. Ms. Kreft said yes, it would be in section A.1. Commissioner Siegert commented on using a flow chart to evaluate the process. Ms. Kreft said staff developed a flow chart for the parking ordinance. She said that is something that could be modified. Commissioner Siegert said she would like a copy of that if it is done.

Commissioner Siegert commented on the wood and asked if there was talk about fire resistance or energy conservation. Ms. Kreft said there was a brief discussion on fire resistance. Chair Simanton said he doesn't recall anything being discussed on energy efficiency. Commissioner Siegert said in researching wood versus brick there is a lot of information on why brick is better.

Commissioner Siegert asked if there is long term information on the maintenance of hardiplank.

Commissioner Peterson said there is a good track record already and the nature of the material is very stable and should last a long time. He said there is a small downtown and continuity helps a lot.

Chair Simanton said there was also discussion on historic downtown Victoria. He said the brick buildings are the historic buildings.

Chair Simanton commented on the communication and said that staff brought up the fact that developers may question why some had to go through the process and not others. He said staff's view by not going through the process was creating an inconsistency.

Commissioner Peterson asked if there was any discussion on design guidelines for significant buildings outside the central business district. Ms. Kreft said there hasn't been any discussion but she thinks there would be support for that.

Commissioner Peterson asked where the enforcement piece is in the ordinance. Ms. Kreft said by going through the process when the City Council approves this there will be an attached resolution.

Commissioner Vogt asked what the role of the Planning Commission is for review of the site plan and building materials. Ms. Kreft said it is similar to other reviews. She said the Planning Commission would make comments and recommendations.

Commissioner Vogt referred to the second bullet stating the change in process for deviations from the design standards as a conditional use permit versus a variance. He said he is a little disappointed that the conditional use permit is part of this versus interim. He stated it doesn't keep any pressure on changing the design standard or keeping with a design standard. Ms. Kreft gave an example on why they choose not to use an interim use. She said an example would be the Lakeside Building which is 100% hardiplank façade. She stated it is not the use that is being permitted it is the mechanism to allow the deviation.

Commissioner Vogt asked what the criteria would be for a conditional use permit. Ms. Kreft said the intent is to allow variations it if fits within a certain context. Commissioner Vogt asked if the certain context is documented. Ms. Kreft responded no. Commissioner Siegert noted there are a lot of other criteria identified. Commissioner Vogt commented on setting the design standards and said this seems to weaken the design standards. Commissioner Peterson commented on having a variety as long as it is in context with the rest of the buildings.

Commissioner Vogt asked if the issue with wood is an external accent issue. Ms. Kreft said it is just external.

Ms. Kreft noted the 13 ½ acres was discussed at the December 4^th meeting and that will most likely be developed as a planned unit development so the city would have more oversight and input during that process.

Commissioner Peterson commented on the draft language and said he didn't think some of the building materials listed were appropriate. He said he would be careful with a rock faced or ripped block material. He noted it doesn't have the finished appearance that a face brick does.

Commissioner Siegert asked if there are any stucco buildings. Mr. Hartman said Fresh Seasons Market.

Chair Simanton asked for clarification on what a sign band is. Ms. Kreft explained it is the area between floors that would allow for signage.

Terry Hartman clarified that wood is being removed as a primary material and asked if hardiplank is also being removed. Ms. Kreft said correct. Mr. Hartman stated his Lakeside Building wouldn't be built as an example under the new condition. He said he doesn't know if Victoria is ready for that yet. Mr. Hartman said he doesn't know if everybody, going forward, can afford a full masonry exterior. Chair Simanton said the Lakeside Building would be grandfathered in. Chair Simanton asked what the procedure would be for someone who wanted to have all hardiplank close to the Lakeside Building. Ms. Kreft said they would need a conditional use permit. Ms. Kreft noted that glass would also be calculated in the other primary material. Commissioner Vogt commented on lap siding. Chair Simanton said that the discussion was more about the maintenance issue.

The Planning Commission discussed wood, hardiplank and brick.

Councilmember O'Connor said he was surprised that hardiplank is not allowed. He said he thought the issue at the meeting on December 4^th was wood is a maintenance problem and hardiplank was an acceptable, relatively long term substitute. Commissioner Peterson said hardiplank is a long term material. Councilmember O'Connor said it comes down to if they should allow the lap siding. He said it may make sense to allow for the use of that material. Commissioner Peterson said his concern is with what the long term character of Victoria will look like. He stated there needs to be continuity with the other buildings.

Commissioner Siegert clarified that the accent material was moved to 30% in order to mitigate some of the costs. She asked if 30% is the right number. Commissioner Peterson noted there will be large areas of glass.

Commissioner Vogt stated there is a big difference between brick buildings where the brick facing is put over concrete and steal or if the brick is put over a wood frame.

The Planning Commission talked about considering hardiplank as a primary building material as opposed to an accent. Commissioner Siegert said she is comfortable with the revisions presented. Commissioner Peterson said he doesn't have a problem with hardiplank because he thinks it has the durability that wood doesn't have.

Chair Simanton asked about the process with the Clock Tower Building. Mr. Hartman said when the Clock Tower Building was built it was intended to be all masonry block, steel, glass and brick. He said when they put the addition on it was priced out the same way and the numbers didn't work. He noted they then looked at wood framing and the primary material will be hardiplank. Mr. Hartman stated he is convinced it will look appropriate and it will be a good mix of materials. He noted that if they wouldn't have been able to do that the addition would not have been able to be put on in today's market. Mr. Hartman said the price was dramatically different from six years ago when the Clock Tower Building was built to the price today for the addition.

Commissioner Vogt said if the conditional use permit is going to be used to handle the deviations from the design standards the number of conditional use permits should be minimized. He stated the standards should be realistic.

Chair Simanton clarified that based on the discussions hardiplank should be included as a primary building material. Commissioner Vogt said he is okay with that. Commissioner Siegert said she is not ready to commit to that. She said the identity of Victoria is to be environmentally conscious.

Ms. Kreft noted this will come back to on January 5^th.

Commissioner Siegert said she would like to hear about the Business Development Committee meeting. Ms. Kreft said that feedback will be in the packet.

Commissioner Peterson stated he is hesitant to make hardiplank equal to brick or masonry materials. He said he is open to hardiplank being an element of design.

Downtown Parking Scenarios

Ms. Kreft reviewed the shared parking ordinance that was looked at last December by the City Council. She said they looked at redevelopment scenarios which centered around the municipal lot located on the corners of Quamoclit and Steiger Lake Lane. The other discussion point was on the City Hall site and a future parking lot. Ms. Kreft said they also looked at different financing opportunities. She said that in 2007 TKDA looked at a parking ramp and the cost range was $20,000 to $35,000 per stall. She said staff did additional research on a parking deck which would be one level and those costs are around $15,000 per stall.

Ms. Kreft showed the different scenarios. She noted there would be 128 parking stalls in the City Hall location.

Ms. Kreft said staff has met with the owner of the post office building and will the owner indicated she work with the city on parking.

Chair Simanton commented on the concern about arbitrary reasons slowing down the process. He noted it usually centers around the parking issue. He stated there is never going to be a perfect parking solution.

Chair Simanton asked if the parking is maxed. Ms. Kreft said based on the analysis done last December there were 321 parking stalls available and 314 required.

Chair Simanton said the notion of parking being right in front of the building is not going to be feasible.

Chair Simanton used the Meuwissen project as an example and asked if they have adequate parking. Ms. Kreft explained the city has agreed to use tax increment financing to offset the underground parking and as part of that there required to have 50 underground public parking spaces.

Chair Simanton talked about having an idea of how to satisfy the parking under the different scenarios.

Commissioner Peterson said surface lots need to be identified that could have multiple bays of parking. He said they need to look at pads where buildings can be and make the downtown walkable.

Commissioner Siegert asked if the reduction is always 50% in the shared parking. Ms. Kreft said it is 50% within the central business district except for residential uses who are required to meet the onsite requirements.

Commissioner Vogt said he is uncomfortable that there is no implementation plan. He reiterated they need to identify where the parking deck would go. Ms. Kreft said she thinks there is an implementation plan it just isn't a written policy. She said the City Council is actively looking at options on how to phase in parking.

Chair Simanton stated nothing will get done with parking until someone comes in with a plan. He commented on having the Planning Commission do more ground work so by the time the City Council gets it there is a comfort level with parking solutions.

Ms. Kreft said they can keep this on the agenda for 2010.

Article V, Off-Street Parking and Loading

Ms. Kreft said the draft language is included. She said staff is purposing the underlined changes. She noted the League of Minnesota Cities reviewed section 30-142 and they are recommending that section be stricken from the ordinance. Ms. Kreft purposed to add language that construction of parking must be perimetered by concrete curbing unless deemed unnecessary by the City Engineer. She said they also added that if there is a proposed development or an existing gravel lot that could be permitted through an interim use permit.

Ms. Kreft stated the other proposed change is adding language to allow for compact stalls. Chair Simanton asked if there is signage that goes with that. Ms. Kreft said yes. She noted that only parking lots over 20 stalls would qualify.

Commissioner Peterson asked what is happening with other communities on compact stalls. Ms. Kreft said the language is taken from the City of Chanhassen. She said they added language that the compact stalls need to be distributed throughout the lot.

Commissioner Siegert asked what the difference is between a compact car space and a regular car space. Ms. Kreft said compact stalls are a reduction of one foot in width and a reduction of three feet in length or depth.

Ms. Kreft stated that staff is proposing under section 30-145, the language that deals with the parking of commercial vehicles, trailers, snowmobiles and boats, be moved to the section that deals with parking.

Ms. Kreft noted she is also working on an update to the schedule for the uses and number of parking spaces required. She said that language will be back on January 5^th.

Commissioner Siegert commented on this being alphabetized and suggested having a diagram. She said the wording could be changed to list common elements together.

Ms. Kreft stated the year end report for 2009 is in the packet. She noted the planning case activity was low.

Chair Simanton commented on a study that was done across Victoria, Waconia, Chaska and Chanhassen with the lot inventory and permits in 2009 and said Victoria is doing a much better job of managing that.
 

Councilmember O'Connor stated the conditional use permit was approved for Alphabet Junction Daycare.

Councilmember O'Connor said clarification that could be provided on hardiplank would be very helpful.
 

None.
 

A motion was made by Simanton, seconded by Siegert, to adjourn the meeting at 8:13 p.m. Vote: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays. Motion carried.
 

Respectfully submitted,

Tanya Schmieg
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.